Meetings Matter Chatter
Industry trends and topics pertaining to the travel and meetings industry
Meetings Matter Chatter
The Future of Strategic Engagement: Innovative Trends and How to Embrace them
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Discover how NeKeta Argrow, Strategic Solutions Advisor on BCD M&E's Performance Optimization team, is bringing the 'S' back into SMM, and revitalizing strategic planning's crucial role in meetings and events for maximum impact.
Welcome to the latest episode of Meetings Matter Chatter. I'm your host, Nikki McLean, account director for BCD's venue search and meeting solutions department. And today I am chatting with Nikita Argro, who is a strategic solutions advisor within our BCD performance optimization team. And she's here to chat with me today about a topic that she's very passionate about, event strategy. I'm so glad to have you on the podcast today, Nikita. Thank you for joining me. Thanks for having me, Nikki.
SPEAKER_01We talk all the time. So it's nice to have this official platform to discuss things.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Thank you so much. So one thing that I always like to do at the beginning is kind of give people a little background of who you are, where you came from, and kind of maybe how you came to be a subject matter expert, if you will, about the topic that you're speaking about today on the pod. So let's take it way back. Um, where did you begin? Where did you go to school? Why are you so passionate about this topic that we're talking about today?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we're taking it way back. Um yeah, so uh I guess my interest in events started in college, actually. I um, as a poor college student working probably like four, three or four jobs at once. Uh, there was a job that I had where I worked for a company called Ogden Entertainment Services, and uh they provided concession services uh for many venues in the Denver metro area, including uh University of Colorado at Boulders Campus, and that's actually where I went to school. Um when I was with Ogden, I started off as a beer maid, and um I quickly learned that I wanted to be the one walking around with the walkie-talkie looking all official. So I had my sight set on management. That's the only way that I'd be able to get the walkie-talkie is to you know become a manager. So I did manage um, you know, for a while, probably a couple of years, my junior and senior year of college, but in my junior year, I um became an intern for a newspaper uh in Boulder called the Colorado Daily. It's in fact one of the longest um free press uh newspapers in the country. Um, while I was there um as an intern, I worked um in the advertising department and I was creating ads, dabble into some graphic design there, but uh building ads for the Colorado Daily and getting in my little Kia car and driving around town and putting those ads, like literally placing those ads manually into the Colorado Daily uh newspaper dispensers around town. Um and so um, but you know, from there kind of grew out of that. And uh right after I graduated from college, um uh the Colorado Daily actually gifted me with a job of being an advertising rep. So that was fun. Um my uh, you know, territory were the entertainment venues in Boulder and Denver. Uh so that definitely kept me busy, kept me on my toes. But it also exposed me to um more of more events, but you know, in private venues and so forth. So, of course, my interest started to pick up a little bit more. Um, I did leave the Colorado Daily after a couple of years and uh went uh into the technology world. Uh my first job in in that industry was with a company called SoftChoice. They're based uh in Toronto, Canada, and I was a licensing expert and salesperson uh for that company for a couple of years. But while I was at SoftChoice, I was given the opportunity to participate in a roadshow that included SoftChoice, uh Microsoft, and HP. And so essentially we would, at the time that roadshow was called Microsoft, the Microsoft Big Day, and we would roll into town and do technical uh seminars for uh IT developers, um, IT professionals, small business owners, and Microsoft partners. And so, and we would also do those events um at a lot of holiday ends and movie theaters. And so um I was a technical trainer for SoftChoice, and they pulled me over uh on over to Microsoft. So I was with Microsoft for about 10 years, and I did start off as a technical trainer on that tour, but I was um you know promoted and uh promoted into the peer marketing area. So I was you know supporting that trade show through marketing, and then ultimately um I ended up running uh the operations team for that tour as well as uh Microsoft, some of the larger Microsoft launch events. So on average, I was managing operations for um up to 1,500 events a year while I was at Microsoft. Yeah. There was um uh a massive reord that happened. I did not want to relocate at the time I was living in Texas. I did not want to relocate to Washington State. Um, so I ultimately uh ended up leaving Microsoft and um shortly thereafter uh is when I was exposed to the world of life sciences. Um so I ended up uh moving to San Antonio and working for a company that's now with 3M. Um they're they were called uh KCI, Medical Device Company. Um and uh at that at KCI, I was responsible for our uh exhibit presence uh as well as media buys. And of course, I managed all the sponsorships and things of that nature as well. Um I was sort of homesick a little bit. I had lived in Dallas and uh with Microsoft for over 10 years, and so I was looking for a pathway back to Dallas, and so ended up working with Alcon, who at the time was uh part of Novartis. Uh so that was uh really good exposure, not necessarily into the medical device. Uh at that time, they considered contact lenses as medical device, but also the pharma side of the house. I was very much exposed to that. Um, so I was with um Alcon for a couple of years. I ended up moving back to Colorado. Um, I ended up uh entering into the world of SMM agencies. I had a five-year stint with American Express Global Business Travel. Um, and then I worked with a small boutique agency in Denver who really focused on uh event strategy, event portfolio strategy, high performance teaming. I had a little freelance work in between jobs then as well. Uh but ultimately uh I have landed here at VCD Meetings and Events as a strategic uh solution advisor with the performance optimization team. So it's been a it's been a whirlwind of a career, um, you know, uh very diverse. Yeah. I feel like I've I've been exposed to or I have been in uh pretty much any role you can think of as it applies to events. Uh so yeah, it's it's been an interesting ride for sure. About 20, almost 25 years now.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, you've mentioned I was sitting here taking notes as you were talking. I mean, you mentioned management, sales, tech, event, marketing, medical device, life sciences, exhibits, media bi, sponsorship. These are all things that play into the events industry. And I'm sure we'll get into this, you know, as we keep chatting. But like you, we're so glad you're here and we're so excited to have someone of your caliber and kind of expertise here within the company. And I think um, for those that are listening that maybe don't live in this space or don't understand, understand this space as well, you know, strategic advisor sounds like kind of a fancy title, right? And performance optimization too sounds like big words and and that kind of thing. But tell us a little bit more about what you do and what does your team do? And um, and that way we can understand a little bit more about that function of what strategic advisory is.
SPEAKER_01Well, Nikki, we do all the things. I'm just kidding. We do a lot of things. But our uh on the with the performance optimization team, you know, our primary focus is new client implementations. Um, and we also do independent uh consulting engagements uh with our clients that range from a you know from an assessment and recommendation of a meeting card policy or a global uh you know meeting policy to more complex change management engagements that you know include things like you know updating the entire SMM strategy and delivery plan, um looking at you know uh resource models and you know using data, sort of you know making some um recommendations around you know resources versus the volume of events that have happened, that type of thing. Um it's a multitude of different um types of engagements that kind of fit within that consultative service uh piece of what we do. Um and then going back to the new client implementation, you know, our team is really responsible for ensuring that uh the onboarding, the client onboarding into the BCD environment is smooth, that they have a fantastic experience, um, and that our you know internal stakeholders also have a good experience with that as well, because depending on the you know the complexity of uh of the program that we are you know onboarding to BCD, you know, it could be global, it could be multinational and so forth, can have a lot of pieces. So, you know, we're really focused on ensuring that that experience is um you know is as good as possible uh so that after launch of of the actual program um with BCD, it is smooth sailing.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, it sounds like it. And I think, you know, I can hear, I can hear the excitement in your voice when you talk about this. And so I think one thing I wonder is, you know, kind of what motivates you? Like what did you choose? Why did you choose to work in this space? Um because you had a very diverse background, as you mentioned. So how did you get to kind of land in this strategy area?
SPEAKER_01I really like being on the side of connecting people, um connecting people to engage in thoughtful discourse, conversation, connecting people, you know, to engage in celebration. I think that, you know, events are are fun, you know, they can be challenging as well. Um I get super excited when I, you know, work with clients who, you know, have that aha moment or you know, are challenged with putting together a business case that shows you know value of events or an events program or really showing events as a business driver, you know, and that's kind of you know feeding into the into strategy. But all those things really excite me. You know, it's at the end of the day, I think anyone who is involved in events um have are people people to a certain extent. Um but for me, it's more of you know, just bringing the people together to accomplish something big. Uh that's something that um I really love about events and prefer to be um on the uh sort of in the in the in the backside, if you will, uh organizing all that and helping you know teams to organize and you know to uh you know deliver uh you know their best potential with with regard with uh with events. I really do like that. The aha moments, especially when I'm facilitating workshops and so forth, that's really exciting. You know, when we are doing a strategy workshop and I look around, there's you know, flip charts all over the place and you know, sticky notes and so forth. That's that's really exciting to really see people come together and um and and and collaborate and be able to you know facilitate um you know a workshop or create an environment for them where they can do that work uh together.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, absolutely. A lot of collaboration there for sure. So I think that the listeners likely know what an event is, right? And I think that generally speaking, most people know what marketing is. But I say if you had to really break down what is strategy and how specifically strategy relates to meetings and events, how would you explain that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so I think in general, you know, strategy is essentially the blueprint for how you will achieve success. I think that there's different ways that people look at strategy. I think that there's some core elements of that. Um, you know, first, you know, you're wanting to assess what your current environment is, you know, uh using data, sort of formulate and build out, you know, what that framework is going to look like. So, you know, what are you know the strategic objectives of focus, you know, for a particular given, you know, period of time, whether that be your fiscal year or six months or what have you. Um, but using the data from your you know assessment, and there's different ways to you know assess the business. I know a lot of folks like to use SWOT analysis, there is, you know, SOAR analysis that's more vision-driven, uh, more forward thinking. Uh, but you know, all of those are the core ingredients. But you know, there's the assessment, there is sort of building out what that strategic framework is going to be, but then there's also the delivery of the strategy. So that's where sort of the plan comes into place. And you get you're getting a little bit more, you know, operationally focused when you start talking about how you are going to deliver on those on the strategy. Um, I think another piece of that is being in a mindset of continuous improvement. So constantly, you know, evaluating the outcomes or setting up a rhythm of business within your uh within your work team, within your group, what have you, whoever you're working with in terms of strategy, but develop what I call a rhythm of business, but it's a cadence of you know checkpoints to ensure that you're making progress on your uh on your strategy. You know, many uh companies now are using um, you know, sort of the objectives and key results methodology or OKRs as a way to you know do some goal setting and track progress uh you know to their strategy as well. And then, you know, I think it's also important to evaluate those outcomes at the end of that, you know, strategy period, if you will, and look at you know, areas uh to refine. You know, perhaps you didn't meet a particular goal or what have you. What can we do to course correct or refine this you know, and move it along? Yeah, absolutely. So I do think that, you know, in general, it's your blueprint for success. There's different ways to approach strategy as it applies to meetings and events or really any uh you know type of uh of industry. Um but at the end of the day, I feel that having a good strategic plan puts you in a cycle of continuous uh improvement or continuous optimization, little plug there. Um yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So we spend a lot of time talking about the letters or the acronym strategic meaning management, SMM. But then one that you shared with me recently and kind of why I wanted to even have this whole conversation is one called SEM or SEM. And you said it was strategic engagement management. So let's talk more about that because I don't even know that I fully understand that. So what is SEM?
SPEAKER_01So it's I would say strategic engagement management was was birthed during the uh the pandemic. Um so this is something that came out of Nikita's brain, but I was actually challenged by one of my clients to produce a business continuity plan very quickly when the world started to shut down. Actually, I I believe it was what in April, April or May of 2020, um, when things really started to get hairy and you know, folks were you know pivoting to um folks were pivoting and using the word pivot so much, but they were pivoting.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, let's never use that word again.
SPEAKER_01So at any rate, uh strategic engagement management, um, you know, it's it's not uh a term that's super official, you're not gonna go and find white papers and so forth about it. It's just I felt that I needed to have a you know a sort of a name, a naming convention to um to really bring in what I was actually trying to convey to the client at that time. So the way that I think about uh strategic engagement management is that it is a uh it can be paired with strategic meetings management, but whereas a strategic meetings management focuses on operational governance, risk mitigation, cost management, uh strategic engagement management focuses on the internal engagement. So with that I mean it is ensuring that the core functions that really touch events and that are critical for event success are in alignment and that they are you know working together, they understand each other's uh, you know, the interdependencies between those groups, you know, in order to uh contribute successfully to events and in and the delivery of events. I think two that these groups have different ways that they look at successful delivery of an event. There's certain data points that these groups you know need to have. So for instance, um when we think about uh strategic engagement management, in my mind, there's three core groups that you know interact with each other that are either 100% involved with event delivery, partially involved, but they are touching the events in some way, either directly or indirectly. And so, you know, groups such as your marketing uh teams that typically own event strategy, you know, your governance layer, which is your legal, uh financial procurement teams, um, even your operations teams when it comes to strategic meetings management will kind of sit in that governance area. And then you have your experienced delivery teams, um, you know, your production team, third-party agencies, agencies like our like BCD meetings and events, perhaps. Um each one of these groups has a different set of data, you know, that they are wanting to, you know, pull from the event. Um, you know, that's part of their success plan as well. And that sort of gets into um developing a return on event, utilizing the data points that are critical, you know, from these various groups. So um, so I've said a lot there. So with strategic engagement management, it's really focused on these internal groups working uh cohesively together, understanding their interdependencies, um, and you know, they're all marching towards a satisfactory delivery of events or uh, you know, and or above. Um, and then the data that you know each of the groups you know what they need in order to uh show success um, you know, within their particular work group or what have you, you know, that all feeds into a return on event analysis, right? So, you know, we talk about return on investment, we talk about return on objective and so forth, but return on event is really the totality, at least in my mind, the totality of all those data points uh that created narrative, a 360-degree narrative of what we're actually getting back from the event as a whole. So, you know, again, uh it was something that I just kind of came up with in my mind, but I felt at the time during the pandemic and sort of this shift to virtual, I just saw that there was um some misalignments going on um with these you know core groups internally. Um and uh, you know, I wanted to put forth some you know recommendations and so forth on how we can you know better influence that space with the client that I had at the time uh so that there was better alignment, that we had more of a you know a combined focus on the uh delivery of the event and attendee satisfaction as well as internal stakeholder satisfaction as well. But really the the important thing was getting those teams aligned uh so that we could um you know implement the strategy and then we could deliver the you know successful programs.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean I think so I'm gonna try to break this down um a little bit further for those that may not be as familiar with this industry as like you and I. What I'm hearing you Say, is that all three of these layers, and we're going to call them layers. Like, think about if we're making a cake or something. Like, you've got to have all three layers in there to have like purposeful and harmonious engagement. Otherwise, it's it's not fully baked, right? Like, not everybody's there, not everybody's participating. The strategy is not working, right? So event strategy is like the marketing function, brand people, creative people, marketing teams, the people that might actually be the creative minds behind why we're having the meeting, right? Then you've got your governance people, and I don't want to say the non-fund people. I probably shouldn't even have said that out loud, but like legal, finance, risk, procurement, sourcing, systems tools, IT, all the people that like make sure that everything is functioning, right? But like you've got to have those people on board because their job is super important to it too. And then you've got delivery. So like meeting planners, operations, ground, air, DMC, US, BCD, production, you know, all the people that make the actual hotels, the meeting that make everything happen. They're all in this layer too, right? So if all three of these stakeholder groups are not engaged, or maybe somebody's out to lunch and not paying attention or something, things could go awise, kind of what I'm hearing you say, right?
SPEAKER_01So yeah, uh, most definitely. I think um particularly when you know you are in the in a in the very early stages of you know developing a program strategy or you know, your specific event uh strategy. I do feel that if the proper groups are not engaged, um obviously disruption will ensue. Um things will take longer, um, people will feel left out, their voices aren't heard at a very critical time. Um, you know, this can permeate throughout the entire, you know, delivery phase of the event and can also contribute to how the attendees uh and their experience at the event um as well. So, you know, it's interesting to see the the significant impact that misalignment, internal misalignment has on the end result, right?
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I mean, I'm sure you have really great examples of how this has worked well, and then I'm sure you have some examples of you know where this has gone awry. In fact, I'm thinking of a conversation I had earlier this week where I can already see these layers and how there was a miscommunication between two of these layers and something didn't go aw this something didn't go well, right? And I can see where it went off the rails. So I think this is really important, you know, in all aspects of life, right? But specifically around event strategy. So let's talk about. Should we start with a good example or should we start with a bad example? Uh, what would you like to do?
SPEAKER_01Well, I'll just I'll give uh an example of something that uh I encountered here recently. And I think that, you know, for any of our listeners that are looking at um, you know, bidding for uh, you know, agency business, right? Um, you know, typically, you know, an agency is coming into an environment where an incumbent is already put in place and whatnot. So the the you know, the change management of um, you know, uh an agency switch or what have you, uh, you know, could can be you know challenging if parties are not fully engaged. And so, you know, when it comes to you know RFP time and making those decisions, it is extremely important that these representation from these layers are heard and that they contribute to you know the the plan, if you will, right? So for instance, um you know, we had a a situation uh not too long ago where uh you know we were implementing a new client, fully engaged with the client. You know, we were really depending on the client to help us navigate the stakeholders that they worked with that really needed to be involved in the implementation process. And what we found was that there was a key group that was uh sort of another layer of operations, if you will, that were responsible for delivering on the event strategy. So, you know, they are in sort of that uh experience delivery piece of the stack. And they were not brought in until we had made significant progress uh with the implementation plan. As a matter of fact, you know, we had started working on SOPs and uh met the client, you know, to review. And that's when we noticed that, ah, okay, this person is quiet, you know, they are not as engaged as they were when we first started meeting. And then, you know, we had a conversation just amongst our group just to kind of you know check in and see where things were at with this client. And we noticed that this person was um, you know, declining calls, wasn't, you know, being an active participant anymore. Um and so we tried to triage it, you know, and try to include that person a bit more. You know, we were in workshops and that person was attending, really tried hard to engage the person. Um, but you know, we're not privy to all things that are going on, you know, with on the client side of the house. Uh, but once we did go live, that particular person was not engaged at all. You know, the dissatisfaction that that one person had because they were not, they didn't feel included as part of the process of a huge change management situation like this, um, or like that, uh, it was just very hard, you know, to get them on board. And it took a few months of um some very candid conversations, um, you know, including senior management layers, and really just kind of uh regrouping, if you will, on just the the entire you know, plan as a whole and revisiting that, um, making sure that that person was, you know, fully understood what was going on, um, that their feedback was, you know, then integrated into the plan as well. But you know, at the end of the day, it just wasn't an ideal experience for that person, for the team ultimately, for us, um, you know, as well. And so we've actually made some changes on how we, you know, approach implementations to ensure that, you know, we have that we can provide some better guidance to our clients as to who needs to be involved when we start, you know, implementation projects. Um and you know, making sure that, you know, we have you know various check-ins with clients, make sure that, as part of the implementation, right, to make sure that everyone is on the same page, that everyone is following the same critical path, the voices are heard and so forth, because you know, when you have someone that feels left out of such a you know substantial uh project, if you will, you know, some of these implementations are global, multinational, it affects a lot of people, et cetera. But if you do not manage that correctly and manage the communications correctly, it can go downhill very fast. And even after you've launched, you know, the uh the program, it can continue to go downhill if those issues are not addressed. So it is, I feel, very important. It goes back to not only um with strategic engagement management, not just you know making sure that everybody's aligned and that you know we're marching to the same drum and you know we're uh following the same project plan and so forth. It's also really understanding what the interdependencies are, right? It's understanding, you know, where you know that particular group, that individual is coming from, what what they feel you know is important to them because you know there are certain pieces of that event that you know, or data points that they need to take away, you know, to show success in their program of what's going on. So, you know, think about procurement, for instance. You know, procurement needs to have a you know a visibility into what's going on because they have certain measurements and you know goals and things that they need to attain that may be based on the performance of the suppliers that are involved with supporting the event delivery. So everyone has like a you know a different set of data that they need to define success for themselves or their own group. So it's just it's important to really understand those interdependencies and work you know much more collaboratively on these programs, ensuring that voices are heard. And it's more of an inclusive strategic journey as opposed to you know just you know the event strategy team caucusing up in you know uh in a room and not really you know engaging operations, for instance, or that governance piece, for instance, to ensure or to vet that their ideas can in fact come to life. So yeah, so it's uh again, you know, I'll I'll beat the point, but it's just important to really understand those interdependencies between the groups.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, and I think, you know, it it's always worth taking the time to really, even if it's just literally with pen and paper or whatever electronic tool you might use, to really map out those stakeholders and understand, like you said, who are they, what's their role, what's their interest in the project or the meeting, what's their influence level, and how can they kind of define the dependencies of it? Because again, are people a detractor? Are they an influencer? And and what can happen if they're not involved in the project, right? And obviously, like in that example that you gave, you know, time is money. And so, like, hopefully that didn't derail the project too much and cause delays and you know, because ultimately, I mean, a lot of these companies are spending a lot of money to to do these events and these programs and these overall strategies. And so to have a miss or something like that, you know, you don't want to make that uh a habit of happening, right? But um it sounds like that, you know, you guys asked the right questions, you were trying to make sure that everyone was engaged, and it sounds like the person was and then wasn't, and then you know, that kind of thing. So, um, but it was it was good that you guys observed that and and you saw it in person that they went from being engaged to not engaged, and then you asked the right questions as to why, and then kind of got down to the root of it. So, um, but again, it's like, yeah, it it's it it can all play a factor in the overall event strategy as we're talking about, right?
SPEAKER_01So I think that in events we work really fast. Um, we work really fast, we get, you know, particularly in the operations element, we really get, you know, down into the details. And sometimes we just don't make the space. Uh, you know, sometimes it's hard to make the space and the time to really ensure that, you know, everyone is aligned, everyone understands the left hand knows what the right hand is doing, and not only that, they understand why. Um, you know, sometimes it's hard to um integrate time in to ensure that, you know, those checkpoints exist, that everyone is on track, et cetera, particularly in the early stages, but it's necessary. And I think that, you know, um from COVID, because I I think that was a pivotal point for our industry, um, you know, because it's not like you know, virtual events didn't exist, it's just we had to go really hard on that and think of different ways to, you know, elevate the experience. Um, but when you're making those significant changes within your organization, and you know, your event strategy team decides that they want to do this, but you know, your operations team is not online and or not, you know, uh is not uh aligned with the plan and is saying, hey, you know, this can't, you know, come to life. If you do not stop and pause and acknowledge that challenge and you know, develop a or collaborate on a solution and and so forth, you know, it just it just causes degradation of the relationship and lack of trust and things of that nature. It just can cause a whole thing, um, you know, based on you know, misalignment and miscommunication. So again, you know, it's just important to bring, you know, the necessary parties along for the ride at the early stages of of strategy, event strategy development or event program strategy development uh to mitigate any fallout or any issues um during or once the program or event has launched.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, absolutely. So you touched a little bit on this before, but let's just kind of go through these acronyms as well. Um, so there's ROI, um, there's ROO, and then there's ROE. So can we talk through the difference of those and then where does strategic engagement uh management fit into those?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so um I think that you know, when I first started in corporate events, uh the measurement that was always um that we always had to align to was return on investment. So that's the ROI piece. You know, over time I come to realize that return on investment really is more of the you know a financial measurement. You know, when you talk about return on investment, you start talking about things like cost per head and things of that nature, right? So it's really um, at least in my mind, um, I look at it as a uh you know a financial measurement. The return on objective or ROO, I you know, I think that is more associated with the marketing and branding efforts. So, you know, our objectives, and so when we think about sort of that strategic engagement management stack of event strategy governance and experience delivery, you know, when it comes to return on objective, you know, typically our you know, the roles that kind of sit within that event uh strategy layer are very much uh focused on those types of measurements, right? So, you know, did we, you know, we we marketed, you know, through X amount of channels, you know, with you know this particular um uh this particular message, did we get the return on you know the message objectives that we put out there, right? Um so I I I feel that that, and sometimes you know, I think return on objective can float into the operation space, but primarily, you know, I feel like that really sits with uh with marketing. You know, do we get in you know the marketing qualified leads, XQLs, you know, what is the pipeline looking like, the you know, awareness of the new solutions, because our objective for this event was to you know launch some new solutions and have you know discussions about that. So there is that. As I've mentioned um before, return on investment is something, I mean, return on event is something that I like because when we think about um you know the importance of the internal groups aligning with that comes various data points from those groups. So as I mentioned, you know, um, you know, on the event strategy side of the house, there may be, you know, um data points and measurements uh that are really centered around um, you know, community and loyalty, you know, MPS, adoption rates, um, you know, upsell opportunities, uh, you know, again, awareness of new solutions, uh, all the marcon metrics, you know, number of trials that were downloaded or demos, that sort of thing. Um, from a um uh when we look at the governance piece of the strategic engagement management stack, those folks are probably looking more at the ROI, right? They're looking at um, you know, financial components, they are looking at from an operations perspective, um, you know, uh costs as well, you know, when we're sourcing venues and things of that nature, you know, all of those financial components are, you know, uh very important. You know, did we uh you know, did we create or did we deliver you know a particular um solution um in you know in in in terms of an operation solution that will help you know drive efficiency and how we deliver? Did that you know come to fruition? And if so, you know, what is the return on that? Um but you know, and then when you get into the experience delivery piece, you know, of course, there is the um audience satisfaction, you know, QSAT scores, there are um you know uh other elements as well. So again, I say that you know each layer has its own set of metrics that really define success of uh of the program or an individual event in and of itself. And so that's kind of where the ROE comes into play because return on event is just that. It is the totality of what was the return on the event, and it is a multitude, it could be a multitude of various data points that represent you know each layer of the strategic engagement stack. So you could have a scorecard that is you know comprised of sales and marketing metrics, uh, community and loyalty metrics, financial metrics, all of those things. Um it's not just you know looking at ROI and ROO, you know, uh separately, but it's the totality of all those things in the form of a return on event as a whole. You know, um I was just speaking with a client not too long ago around you know, how do they represent the totality of uh return on investment in particular with their events? And so what they're looking at now is you know, including the individual travel metrics into the play so they can really get a good sense of uh the the total spend that's happening, um not just with you know the hotel travel or what's actually going on at the event itself, but it's you know, air, it is you know, rail, it's it's any means of transportation that you know, however that attendee uh you know got to the event that is spent that needs to be captured. Um, and so you know that's part of uh the the the total return on on the event. If we were able to you know save some dollars by you know utilizing group air, for instance, as opposed to, you know, if we have a bunch of people who live in Chicago who need to get to New York, instead of having them book individually, perhaps we use Group Air and that saved us money. So, you know, that's a you know savings that we can report from a financial perspective, but then it also goes into this, you know, return on event. It's just one of many metrics that make up that return on event um at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. I mean, I feel like we could probably do a whole other conversation about return on event, but we'll we'll save that for another day. But um thank you for you know explaining that a little bit further. I appreciate that. Um, okay, we're gonna switch gears for a second. Um, this was really helpful. Thank you so much. Um I want to know a little bit about because it sounds like you, you know, you stay on top of a lot of trends. I I mean, I know you personally follow a lot of different publications and blogs and websites, and you listen to different things, but what are some other trends that you're following to kind of keep you up to speed on what's you know new and exciting in this industry?
SPEAKER_01So AI is is definitely top of mind for many businesses right now. Uh almost I almost feel like I sound cliche by saying AI, but I think I'm I'm pretty excited about it in terms of you know how we can, you know, what what I'm seeing is um companies creating their own generative AI environments. And so I'm really interested as to the progression on that. And seeing that, you know, BCD uh meetings and events, our portfolio is very diverse, but we do work with uh heavily regulated industries. And so I am could I am um interested as to how you know this the topic of generative AI is going to be applicable in those heavily regulated industries. So that's something that I've just kind of been keeping. Watch of and so forth here lately. The other uh thing that I'm super interested in is neurodiversity. Um yeah, I do facilitate quite a bit of uh quite a few workshops at BCD meetings and events, and um I'm always looking for ways, again, I go back to uh just you know being inclusive and just trying to figure out you know different techniques, uh best practices that can keep people engaged regardless of, you know, uh regardless of what their situation is. So for instance, I facilitated a workshop last year and I did something as simple as um you know bring in fidget kits and um you know that had different textures and colors and sprinkled them throughout the table. Um, you know, I had uh in my workshop, I had, you know, moments where you know we would break and you know do little activities and things of that nature. And so there was a person that was in my workshop who I did not know was uh neurodivergent at the time, but she sent me a really nice follow-up email just thanking me for creating an environment uh where she felt comfortable and felt comfortable enough to really engage herself in the conversation. Um she said typically, you know, she is the wallflower in the back of the room, but the environment was comfortable enough where she felt that she could step outside of her comfort zone and really contribute. Um so that meant a lot to me, and so I'm wanting to investigate more and integrate more uh of those best practices into um my workshops and you know, creating uh inclusive experiences for um for attendees.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_01In addition to that, you know, I'm always interested in the evolution of DEI. Um, I think now the topic and I probably should have uh used this word as opposed to inclusion, but I think now people are looking at creating environments of belonging, not just you know, inclusion, right? They want to, the example that I just gave you, you know, she felt included, but she also felt like she belonged. Um she felt like she this is you know, creating an environment where she, you know, feels that she belongs on this team and can actually be an active contributor to conversations that impact the team. So always looking at, you know, the evolution of DEI. And then lastly, sustainable uh events and programs, um, trends in that area. Uh what does that actually mean for meetings and events now? I know that there's been quite an evolution around sustainable events and what it just sustainability in our industry in general. There's been a lot of uh evolution with regard to that. But you know, I'm I'm interested in the application and best practices. How does that, what does that actually mean for different, you know, types of companies and and industries? Uh, what is the narrative? Um, but I also am looking at um, you know, what are the best practices that are in play right now where that helps us to be a bit more realistic about sustainability and about the contributions that you know that that we can make. Um I think that when it comes to sustainable events, I think that's a heavy word. And so I'd like to kind of see more in the application of that. Um as a you know, from a meeting planner perspective, I can see a little bit of pushback when it comes to sustainable events because you know, some practices were really impact budgets, and we know that we're constantly being challenged to do more with less. So if we're challenged with that, you know, what are ways that we can or practices that we can adopt to, you know, ensure that our events, you know, carry a sustainable message and practice, um, you know, while also managing within the budget budgetary parameters that we're given. So at any rate, we can talk about that all day as well.
SPEAKER_00But yeah, I think I mean you literally just basically picked the rest of my uh editorial calendar for the year. I'm not kidding. But no, these are definitely um literally topics that um, you know, I've been thinking about. And so I'd love to pick your brain offline about some of these because I think these are all really pertinent topics and things that I think people are passionate about. And so I'm glad that these are things that you're following as well. I think these are things that are top of mind for a lot of our customers, and these are things that are, you know, out and about in the industry that we see people speaking about, and you know, that I I'm also you know personally curious about as well and and how they will continue to evolve. So uh thank you for for sharing that.
SPEAKER_01One additional ad to that one additional ad to that is the future of work and ways of working. Um, because that actually, as an as an agency, you know, that topic really impacts um the way that we resource uh our pricing and things of that nature. And there has been a, you know, since the pandemic, there has been um sort of an evolution as to how people work nowadays. Um, you know, I know that there is a for some companies there's a rush to get people back into the office, but for the most part, you know, people um have experienced remote, remote work, uh, some uh, you know, for the first time during the pandemic. And so there has been sort of this evolution on you know ways that we do work, ways that we work in a virtual environment and things of that nature. So I wanted I I would be remiss if I didn't point that out because that has a direct impact to you know agencies such as ours, um, where we actually have re you know people resources that work remotely, they work hybrid, they work on site with the client, you know. Um, and then uh, you know, of course, there is pricing implications to that as well. So at any rate, that's another piece that it is of interest right now.
SPEAKER_00No, you're spot on with that too. Thank you. Um, well, we have talked about a lot today. And so I think if you had to kind of, you know, summarize it down. Um Well, let's let let me take it back a second. We talked about it how this works in like a work, a work environment. But is is there something that you shared today that listeners can take away from this discussion and use in their real lives? Like not necessarily in their work lives, because not everybody that listens to this maybe works in this industry, but how can they use this in application in their real lives?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question. Um I think communication alignment is key to so many issues in the world, to be perfectly honest. I think that, you know, as I mentioned before, we move very fast. Um, you know, we have technology at our fingertips to help us move even faster, but we forget to slow down. Oftentimes I think we forget to slow down and listen to understand. Um and I'll emphasize that listen to understand um and ensure that you know our messages actually land with the recipient. And if they don't, then a healthy debate can occur. Um, you know, I think um, you know, we're not always gonna agree on a path forward. Um and if that you know happens, it requires productive conversations, healthy debate and whatnot. So communication, I feel, makes the world go round. If communic if we're misaligned or we're not understanding each other, um, and we don't take the time to realign, it can go downhill fast for sure.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yeah. I mean, it definitely sounds like it. That is really great advice. Um, slow down and listen to understand. I love that. Okay, so if the listeners remember one of the amazing things that you said today, what would that be and why?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I think effective, so to to carry off of the communication um uh answer that I gave, um, effective collaboration is critical. Um I feel that that's at the heart of strategic engagement management. I had mentioned numerous times of you know, each group or you know, each individual that's part of that group, really understanding the interdependencies that drive the collaboration between those groups. And I think um understanding that you know, collaboration is how we have to accomplish things in a corporate environment, even in a government environment, but that's a separate topic. But corporate environment, we have to work together, we have to, you know, work together, and we may we don't have to like each other, but we have to definitely work with one another in a collaborative way to accomplish big things. So I think having that uh thorough understanding of the interdependencies that are that are happening, it really helps to improve collaboration and communication and provides a, I feel, a positive pathway to program success.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, I think you're right. I think collaboration is really key. And I think truly understanding how each of those layers that we talked about earlier come together and collaborate and or not collaborate is is really what is gonna tell you if it's gonna be successful or not, right? So okay, final thought. I ask this usually to almost all my guests. And while I I value you as a strategic consultant and I wouldn't want to lose you in this space, um if you were not doing what you're doing today, what would it be and why?
SPEAKER_01So oh wow. Um I think I would be operating a food truck or some type of operating some type of food experience events uh in pop-up venues or very like non-traditional venues. Uh operating a food truck was a dream that uh my brother and I had. Uh then life happened. It it sure did happen. And so I don't know, maybe I will revisit that. I think I'm at a point in my career where I'm doing a lot of reflection. Um I'm you know, kind of starting the what I would call like the third phase of the career, you know, and you're starting to get over that hump and uh, you know, starting retirement is getting a bit closer to you. You start to talk about that um and prepare for that. But yeah, I think that, you know, at this time in my career, just a lot of self-reflection is taking place. So perhaps I will revisit that uh that dream in the future and make it and make it real, um, especially in honor of my brother.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Well, I love that. That's not what I thought you were gonna say, but um, I I always love hearing what people come up with. So um that sounds like an exciting dream, and I hope you're able to fulfill that. Well thank you so much. This has been such an enjoyable conversation and a strategic one at that. So um, thank you for joining Meetings Matter Chatter and for all of our listeners. We appreciate you uh dialing in for today's podcast. And if you ever have any feedback, thoughts, or ideas on future episodes, please let us know. Otherwise, thanks for joining us.